[D. Decision on Proposed Revisions to Board Policy 02-0001-000 Student Attendance, Kimberly H. Neal, Esq., General Counsel and Mr. Bernard Hennigan, Executive Director of Student Support Services]

LIKE TO CALL ON MISS KIMBERLY NEAL AND MR BUCK AND AGAIN FOR DISCUSSION. ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING. BOARD MEMBERS, UM THE STUDENT ATTENDANCE POLICY WAS FIRST PRESENTED TO THE BOARD BACK ON NOVEMBER THE 14TH BY MYSELF AND MR HENNIGAN, UM, THE PURPOSE, THE REASON THAT THERE WERE SOME ADJUSTMENTS MADE TO THAT POLICY WAS TO CONFORM WITH THE CODE OF MARYLAND REGULATIONS WITH OMAR AND ALSO SOME UPDATED INSTRUCTION FROM MSD. UM AND WE TALKED THROUGH AT THAT MEETING WHAT THOSE PARTICULAR REVISIONS WERE AND YOU SHOULD HAVE A MARKED UP COPY. UM IN YOUR MATERIALS. IN ADDITION, SO THAT THE, UM THE POLICY WAS IMPOSED FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AS REQUIRED FOR A MINIMUM OF 30 DAYS. WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT DURING THAT PERIOD, ALTHOUGH THIS EVENING WE HAVE HEARD A PUBLIC COMMENT AS WELL. AND BOTH MR HENNIGAN AND I WERE TAKING NOTES. BY THE WAY OF THAT. THERE'S COMMENTS SO THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ADDRESS UM, THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE RAISED. UM AND IN ADDITION AND YOU'LL NOTE IN YOUR INFORMATION REPORT THAT DURING THAT TIME WINDOW, MR HENNIGAN'S TEAM WAS LOOKING BACK, OF COURSE OVER THE POLICY AND WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT IT PERFECTLY COMPLIED WITH THE CURRENT STATE OF THE LAW. SO THERE WERE THREE ADDITIONAL WORDS THAT WERE ADDED TO THE POLICY WHICH HAVE BEEN HIGHLIGHTED FOR YOU ALL IN A IN AN UPDATED COPY IN BLUE. UM AND MR HANNIGAN WILL EXPLAIN THAT THE THREE WORDS ARE OR UNLAWFULLY ABSENT. UM AND WHAT I WANTED TO EXPLAIN IS THAT AS ONCE, MR HANNIGAN KIND OF GOES THROUGH THAT AND WE ACCEPT SOME QUESTIONS. UM THE ADDITION OF THOSE THREE WORDS IS NOT WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE TO THE POLICY . UM SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT IF YOU ALL EXCEPT THOSE THE LANGUAGE, THERE'S THREE ADDITIONAL WORDS, YOU WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO VOTE AND MAKE A DECISION ON THIS POLICY TONIGHT IT WOULD NOT NEED TO GO BACK OUT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. IF THERE ARE MORE ADDITIONAL CHANGES THAT NEED THAT YOU ALL WANT OR THAT NEED TO BE MADE OF THE POLICY. FOR SOME REASON, WE CAN ASSESS THAT IF IT BECOMES A SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE, THIS POLICY WOULD NEED TO GO BACK OUT AGAIN FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN COME BACK AGAIN AT A LATER DATE FOR A VOTE. I'LL PASS IT TO MR HANNIGAN. THANK YOU. SO THE ADDITION OF THE THREE WORDS OR UNLAWFULLY ABSENT IS BECAUSE MSD HAS 21 CODES FOR AN ABSENCE. UH AND, UM CODE 20 IS UNLAWFULLY ABSENT CODE. 21 IS TRENT AND THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A NUANCE OF DIFFERENCE SO TRUE, IT MEANS THAT THE CHILD PURPOSELY MISSED SCHOOL, UM, DID NOT COME TO SCHOOL THAT THEY SKIPPED CLASS OR IT MIGHT BE UNLAWFULLY ABSENT WOULD MEAN THAT THE CHILD DID NOT COME TO SCHOOL AND THEN DID NOT BRING A NOTE TO EXCUSE THE ABSENCE. SO THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE SAID THAT THE TEACHER COULD NOT PROVIDE MAKEUP WORK IF THEY DECIDED IF THEY DETERMINE THAT THE CHILD HAS BEEN TRUANT, BUT ACTUALLY WOULD BE ALSO OR UNLAWFULLY ABSENT SO IT COULD GO EITHER WAY , SO JUST ADDING THAT TO MAKE SURE IT'S COVERING BOTH SITUATIONS THAT COULD PRESENT THEMSELVES TO A TEACHER. AND DID YOU WANT TO ADDRESS? SURE THE, UM THE PIECE ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH NOTE THAT WAS ADDRESSED IN PUBLIC COMMENTS IN 2022 DURING THE REGULAR SESSION, HOUSE BILL 1 18 WAS PASSED, WHICH SAID THAT EVERY MALE IN PUBLIC SCHOOL MUST ACCEPT A NOTE FROM A MENTAL HEALTH PROVIDER, THE SAME THEY WOULD FROM A PHYSICAL HEALTH PROVIDER. IT ALSO ADDED THAT THE SCHOOL HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO SHARE MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES WITH A PARENT. IF A CHILD BRINGS A NOTE IN STATING THAT THEY WERE ABSENCE FOR MENTAL HEALTH ABSENCE, SO WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE A NOTE PRESENTED. AND LEAVE IT AS IS, AS THE PUBLIC SPEAKER STATED. WE NEED TO THEN TAKE THAT NOTE, TURN AROUND AND PROVIDE MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES TO THAT PARENT. SO OTHER PEOPLE IN THE SCHOOL BEING INFORMED IS A NECESSARY PART OF THAT PROCESS. I'M SORRY. YES SO THE CHANGES TO THE NOTIFICATION REGARDING A POSSIBLE FAILURE, OF COURSE DUE TO ABSENCES. UM, MARYLAND STATE DEPARTMENT EDUCATION ALSO CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF CHRONIC ABSENTEEISM TWO YEARS AGO TO A 10% RULE. SO BASICALLY,

[00:55:01]

I HAVE A CHILDHOOD MISSED 10% OF THE TIME THAT THEY WERE ENROLLED THAT THEY WOULD BE CONSIDERED CHRONICALLY ABSENT. SO IN A FULL SCHOOL YEAR. THAT WOULD BE 18 DAYS AND A HALF OF THE SCHOOL YEAR. THAT WOULD BE 90 DAYS OR NINE DAYS. RATHER SO THE LANGUAGE OF SIX AND 11 I'M NOT SURE WHERE THAT CAME FROM THAT THAT COMES BEFORE MY TIME, BUT IT SEEMED RATHER ARBITRARY TO MYSELF AND THE FOLKS AND ITS SERVICES IN ORDER TO COME IN LINE WITH MSD AND THEIR DEFINITION OF CHRONIC ABSENTEEISM. WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT TO NINE AND 18 SO APPARENTLY BE NOTIFIED AFTER NINE ABSENCES THAT YOUR CHILD COULD POTENTIALLY FAIL THIS CLASS FOR THE YEAR. AND AFTER 18 THE SAME THING WE DO NOT. WE DID ALSO CHANGE THIS A FEW YEARS BACK TO SAY MAY AND NOT MUST SO THAT THE TEACHER HAD THE DISCRETION SO THAT FOR INSTANCE OF A CHILD, MRS 18 DAYS OF SCHOOL, THEN AUTOMATICALLY FAIL THE CLASS FOR THE YEAR THAT THE TEACHERS USED THEIR DISCRETION. AS TO, UM HAVE THE CHILD DID IF THEY DID THEIR WORK IF THEY WERE ABLE TO PERFORM THE TESTS, AND I GUESS THE NATURE OF THOSE ABSENCES AS WELL. SURE. WELL IT'S NOT GUIDELINES ABOUT NOTIFICATIONS. MSD JUST CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF CHRONICALLY ABSENT TO 10% SO WE JUST CHANGED THE POLICY BECAUSE OF SIX AND 11 WERE JUST SORT OF ARBITRARY NUMBERS. I'M NOT SURE MAYBE THERE WAS A DIFFERENT A DIFFERENT DEFINITION OF CHRONICALLY ABSENT AT ONE TIME AND SIX AND 11 MADE SENSE BUT TO MAKE IT MORE MEANINGFUL AND TO ALIGN WITH THE MINISTER EASE, CHRONICALLY ABSENCE. DEFINITION WHICH CHANGED IT TO NINE AND 18.

HMM. YOU MEAN IF WE JUST KEEP THIS? THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCE, BUT I WOULD ALSO ADD. THAT IT'S NOT AS IF THERE'S ONLY TWO COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN THE PARENTS AND THE TEACHER AND THE PARENT DURING THAT SCHOOL YEAR. SO THIS IS JUST SAYING, WE MUST MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE CHECKS AND BALANCES IN 19. BUT MY GUESS IS THOSE TEACHERS AND THE PARENTS ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION THROUGHOUT THE SCHOOL YEAR ROUTINELY, ANYWAY. SO MR HEUSER BROUGHT UP ABOUT 10 DAYS FOR REDOING I E EPS. WHERE DOES THAT FIGURE INTO THIS? NOT SURE WHAT HE WAS SAYING. DOING THAT PIECE.

I WASN'T EITHER. THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING. I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT KNOW MORE ABOUT IT THAN I DID.

10 DAYS FOR, UM, RECONSIDERATION OF THE I P. BASICALLY IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE CAUSALITY, BUT USUALLY THAT'S CONNECTED TO DAYS OF DISCIPLINE. IN OTHER WORDS DAYS RELATED TO SUSPENSION, SO THE STUDENTS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE SETTING. FOR SOME REASON, FOR ONCE THEY REACHED THE 10 DAY THRESHOLD. YOU NEED TO REVISIT THE I B I E. P TO ENSURE THE SETTING IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE STUDENTS AND THE SERVICES THAT ARE THE ACCOMMODATIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED FOR IN THE I. P. UM, ARE APPROPRIATE SO AND USUALLY BECAUSE BECAUSE THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE BEHAVIORS THE STUDENT WAS EXHIBITED TO CAUSE THE, UM DISCIPLINARY ACTION OR SUSPENSION. BUT THAT'S THAT'S THOSE ABSENCES ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOUR REGULAR ATTENDANCE FOR ILLNESS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

YOU KNOW, 10 DAYS OF ILLNESS WOULDN'T NECESSARILY REQUIRE UMT REALLY IS ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED DISCIPLINE. THERE ALSO WAS ANOTHER CHANGE THAT MAYBE THAT WAS BEING REFERENCED A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK TO SAY THAT STUDENTS THAT ARE NON PUBLIC SCHOOLS IF THEY MISS 10, CONSECUTIVE DAYS OF SCHOOL IN A ROW THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AN I P MEETING TO REVISIT THEIR IF THAT'S THE PROPER PLACEMENT FOR THEM, SO THAT MAY HAVE ALSO BEEN THE, UM PURPOSE OF THAT COMMENT. THAT'S ANOTHER ONE ALSO, THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT. I JUST WASN'T SURE. I DIDN'T KNOW. OKAY UM, WERE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS UM, YEAH, I. I WANTED TO. I THINK THAT THE SECTION THREE PARAGRAPH D TO THAT MR HIGH SNOW BROUGHT UP AS WELL, UM I WOULD REPLACE WHERE IT SAYS ILLNESS OF STUDENTS FOR MEDICAL DOCUMENTATION IS REQUIRED. WITH ILLNESS OF STUDENT UPON RETURN SHALL PROVIDE A NOTE TOO. FROM THE PARENT TO THE ADMINISTRATORS , WHICH THEY SHOULD DO, BUT I THINK IT SHOULD BE STATED EXPLICITLY, UM AND. FOR AND THEN THE, UM THE UNITS OF MEASURE.

WE'RE NOT ON THERE, SO IT JUST BUT IT IT SAY IT WAS. IT WAS NOT SPECIFIED. SO I FELT LIKE WE NEED TO SPECIFY. IS IT THREE DAYS? HOW MANY DAYS CONSECUTIVE DAYS BEFORE IT'S REQUIRED? THERE WAS THE LANGUAGE I THOUGHT WAS A LITTLE GRAY. UM AND THAT'S UM IN PARAGRAPH. P TWO, I THINK I DON'T KNOW SOME OF THE NUMBERING LOOKS LIKE IT GOT CHANGED WHEN YOU ADDED THE BLUE. SO YOU ARE YOU ASKING ABOUT HOW MANY DAYS OF ABSENCE DUE TO THE MENTAL HEALTH CONCERN? SO LET ME LET ME SEE IF I CAN FIND IT. ALL RIGHT. SO THERE WAS THERE WAS, UM BURBAGE IN HERE ABOUT

[01:00:05]

CONSECUTIVE DAYS, WHICH IS IT HARD FOR YOU? I BELIEVE I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO THE FIRST TWO SENTENCES OF THAT, UM, PARAGRAPH TWO. THAT IS REFERRING TO THE FACT THAT IF A CHILD HAS CONTINUOUS ABSENCE IS THE SCHOOL MAY STEP IN AND SAY THAT WE'RE REQUIRING A PHYSICIAN'S NOTE THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE A PARENTS NOTE ANYMORE, AND WHAT THE NEW LEGISLATION SAID IS IF A SCHOOL DEMANDS A NOTE FROM A PHYSICIAN , THEY MUST ALSO ACCEPT THAT FROM A MENTAL HEALTH PRACTITIONER, RIGHT? OKAY YES, SO AND I THOUGHT THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME SPECIFICITY ON THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND NOT JUST STATE CONSECUTIVE DAYS AND THEN THE OTHER COMMENT. I HAVE FEW OTHER COMMENTS THAT. THE WORDING SHOULD CHANGE SO THAT. THE PARENTS ARE MORE INCLUDED IN THE UM, STEPS OF THIS PROCESS. SO THE FIRST STEP SAYS THE TEACHER RECEIVES THE ABSENT NOTE FROM THE MENTAL HEALTH. THAT'S FINE. UM THE TEACHER INFORMS THE STUDENT COUNSELOR. FINE, UM BUT THE. WHAT THE CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS THAT THE SCHOOL TAKEOVER THE COUNSELING AND THERAPY IF THE IF THE CHILD HAS CANCELING IN THERAPY THROUGH THEIR PARENTS AND YOU KNOW THE PARENTS SHOULD BE IN CHARGE OF THAT MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT. AND I DON'T THINK THAT THE THAT THE WORDING IN THE DOCUMENT IS, UM, BINDINGS SO THAT THAT PARENT, PARENT AND PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT IS MAINTAINED, SO I THINK THE WORDING NEEDS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S BY THE PARENTS REQUEST FOR HELP WITH THE MENTAL CARE OF THE OF THE STUDENT. UM, YOU KNOW, AND THAT IT'S NOT TAKEN OUT OF THE PARENTS HANDS AND IF THE CHILD IS SENT TO THE COUNSELOR THAT THE PARENT IS INFORMED, LIKE AT THE AT THE CHILD HAS A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE DURING SCHOOL THAT THAT CHILD THEN AND GETS SENT TO FOR COUNSELING OR SO THE PARENT JUST, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU WOULD IF THE CHILD WAS SICK. AND WENT TO THE NURSE THAT YOU WOULD CONTACT THE PARENT AND THE PARENT WOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO TAKE THEIR CHILD TO THE THEIR OWN COUNSELOR AND THE VERBIAGE IN HERE. IT'S JUST MISSING, SO I BELIEVE THE YOUR CONCERN. I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND AND THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE OPERATIONALIZED IT THIS WAY SO THAT THE COUNCIL FINDS OUT THAT I KNEW IT WAS BROUGHT IN. THEY CAN THEN DISCERN WHAT'S THE APPROPRIATE NEXT STEPS. SO MAYBE THIS IS A STUDENT WHO THEY KNOW ALREADY HAS A THERAPIST IS ACTIVELY INVOLVED WITH IT. THEY MAY NOT. SEND THAT HOME TO THAT PARENT BECAUSE THE PARENT HAS THE RESOURCES THAT THEY NEED.

THE LEGISLATION SAID THAT WHEN THE CHILD BRINGS A NOTE INTO SAY THEY WERE ABSENT FOR MENTAL HEALTH REASONS. WE ARE OBLIGATED TO SEND THAT PARENT RESOURCES NOT TO MEET WITH THE CHILD, SO IN NO PLACE IN HERE IS THIS COUNCIL MEETING WITH THE CHILD. IF YOU WERE TO CLICK ON THE HYPERLINK, YOU'D SEE THE MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES OF THE PARENTS GET ARE ALL THEY'RE ALL EXTERNAL RESOURCES. UM BUT WHAT WE WOULD WANT TO DO IS MAKE SURE THAT IF THE COUNSELOR FINDS OUT THAT A MENTAL HEALTH NOTE WAS APART FROM A STUDENT, AND THEY HAVE NO NOON CONCERNS THAT THEY HAVE TO SEND THAT RESEARCH TO LEGALLY OBLIGATED THROUGH LEGISLATION TO SEND THAT RESOURCE HOME TO THE PARENTS AND LET THEM KNOW HERE'S THERAPY RESOURCES, THERAPEUTIC RESOURCES IN THE COMMUNITY THAT NUMBER FOUR IF I MAY IT SAYS STUDENT COUNSELOR SHALL DECIDE. WHETHER OR NOT TO MEET WITH THE STUDENT BASED ON PRIOR EXPERIENCE WITH THE STUDENT AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY FEEL IT IS WARRANTED. SO THIS WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF A CHILD WHO ROUTINELY COMES TO THE COUNSELOR, AND THEN THEY KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH DIAGNOSIS. AND NOW THE CHILD'S BEEN ABSENT FOR FOUR DAYS AND BRINGS A NOTE IN SAYING THAT WAS ABSENT DUE TO MY ANXIETY I WOULD EXPECT AS THE LEADER OF THAT DEPARTMENT THAT COUNSELORS HAVE MEET WITH THAT CHILD AND FIND OUT HEY, I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN STRUGGLING. CAN WE TALK ABOUT THESE ABSENCES? THERE MAY BE ANOTHER SITUATION WHERE THEY FULLY UNDERSTAND AND KNOW WHY THE CHILD WAS ABSENT AND HAVE NO JUST NO NEED TO MEET WITH THAT CHALLENGE, SO WE NEED TO LEAD THE DISCRETION WITH OUR COUNSELORS AS TO WHICH CHILDREN ARE GOING TO MEET WITH OR NOT MEET WITH, AND I DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE THIS TOO STRINGENT TO SAY.

ANYTIME A NOTE COMES IN. THE COUNCIL HAS TO MEET WITH THE STUDENT. NO I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT FURBISH BE ADDED THAT THE PARENT BE INFORMED OF THIS MEETING WITH THE COUNSELOR. WELL THAT THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE A BIGGER DISCUSSION, BECAUSE IF OUR COUNSELORS ARE NOTIFYING PARENTS EVERY TIME THEY MEET WITH STUDENTS, I WOULD LIKE TO TABLE THIS POLICY. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION OF TABLE THIS POLICY. READY. OKAY? YEAH. I GUESS I WOULD JUST COMMENT ON THE COMMON PRACTICE NATIONWIDE THAT COUNSELORS AREN'T TELLING PARENTS EVERY TIME THEY MEET WITH THE STUDENTS. SOMETIMES IT'S A THREE MINUTE MEETINGS. SOMETIMES IT'S A ONE HOUR MEETING. THEY HAVE THOUSANDS OF MEETINGS A YEAR, AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY CONTACT THE PARENT

[01:05:02]

EVERY TIME THEY HAVE A MEETING WITH A CHILD. I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT WOULD BE FEASIBLE. WELL, I KNOW THAT WELL, WHEN MY CHILDREN WERE IN SCHOOL, THEY DIDN'T HAVE COUNSELORS AND WHEN MY CHILD NEEDED TO GO TO A DOCTOR MENTAL OR PHYSICAL. I TOOK THEM SO I JUST, YOU KNOW THINK THAT PARENTS SHOULD HAVE THE SAME. U, UM WHEN COUNSELORS WEREN'T THERE , AND MAYBE THE PARENT WILL SAY FINE, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT A PHONE CALL. THEIR PARENTS WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, OR THEY MIGHT SAY OKAY, I'LL BE IN, YOU KNOW, UM, AND THEY'LL SIT. YOU KNOW IN THE SESSION OR YOU KNOW, HOWEVER, IT'S HANDLED DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THE CHILD, OBVIOUSLY, UM , YOU KNOW, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, BUT AND LIKE I SAID, I THINK IT COULD BE CONFUSING FOR THE STUDENT UM AND THE CHILD. IF THEY HAVE TO COUNSELORS, THEY HAVE ONE AT HOME, AND THEY HAVE ONE AT SCHOOL, SO THERE'S CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE PHYSICIANS , SO I JUST SEE A WHOLE A LOT OF ISSUES, AND I'M JUST SPEAKING THAT WAY FROM A PARENT'S PERSPECTIVE IN LIKE IF MY CHILD WAS SEEING A PHYSICIAN THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE IF I WAS DIVORCED, WHICH I'M NOT. BUT IF I WAS DIVORCED, AND MY HUSBAND, MY EX HUSBAND WAS TAKING MY CHILD TO ANOTHER DOCTOR, AND I'M TAKING THEM TO A WHOLE ANOTHER DOCTOR. THE CHILD IS GOING TO BE LIKE, WHO DO I LISTEN TO? WELL I THINK I WOULD I AGREE WITH WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND THAT OUR COUNSELORS ARE NOT TRAINED THERAPIST AND THAT THEY'RE NOT MEETING WITH CHILDREN ON A REGULAR BASIS TO PROVIDE 45 MINUTES THERAPY SESSIONS. SOME OF THEIR CONTACTS ARE HEY, CAN YOU FILL OUT THIS APPLICATION FOR ME? HEY CAN WE TALK ABOUT COLLEGE OR I WANT HIM TO COME DOWN, COME DOWN AND TALK ABOUT A MENTAL HEALTH CONCERN AT NO TIME OR STUDENTS EVER OBLIGATED AND FORCED TO MEET WITH THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR. IT'S ALL OPTIONAL. EVEN IF IT'S SCHOOL COUNSELOR ASKED HIM TO COME DOWN. THERE IS NO MANDATE THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET WITH THEM. SO OUR COUNCILS ARE NOT REPLACING THERAPISTS.

ANYWAY. LET ME PUT SOME BOUNDARIES. I'M ONLY TALKING ABOUT OF BEHAVIORAL HEALTH. I MEAN, WE'VE AT. YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL, WE HAD COUNCILORS FOR ACADEMIC COUNSELORS. YOU KNOW, AND I'M NOT REFERRING TO THEM. I'M JUST REFERRING ABOUT HEALTH ISSUES THAT THAT SHOULD BE IN THE PURVIEW OF THE PARENTS. AND I GUESS THE LAST THING I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS SOMETIMES. THESE CONVERSATIONS STARTED TALKING ABOUT COLLEGE AND THEN THEY CAN TURN INTO A MENTAL HEALTH DISCUSSION. UM SO THE IT'S JUST JUST HAVE GRAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE FEASIBILITY OF GETTING PARENT PERMISSION PRIOR TO A COUNCIL MEETING WITH THE STUDENT THAT WOULD PUT UP HUGE BARRIERS, UM TO THE WORK THAT THEY DO ON A DAILY BASIS, AND THIS DOESN'T EVEN SPECIFY THE AGE. YOU KNOW, LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE COLLEGE LEVEL. YOU KNOW, THE KIDS ARE JUNIOR SENIOR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S TOTALLY MAYBE DIFFERENT AREA. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT IF THIS DOESN'T EVEN ADDRESS WHETHER OR NOT THESE ARE ELEMENTARY STUDENTS, SO WE'RE THERE'S NO BOUNDARIES PLACED ON THE AGE GROUP, EITHER IN THIS DOCUMENT LEGISLATION MANDATES THAT WE DO IT. PEOPLE THROUGH 12. SO ANY OF A PRE K STUDENT OR 12TH GRADER BRINGS A NOTE IN SAYING THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY YESTERDAY. DUE TO FEELING ANXIOUS. THE LEGISLATION SAYS YOU MUST ENCODE THAT PROPERLY CENTRAL RESOURCES TO THAT FAMILY. WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE IN THAT MATTER. I UNDERSTAND. I'M SORRY. I UNDERSTAND THAT POLICY AND THAT PROCEDURE ISN'T THERE A WAY I THINK THAT WE AS A SCHOOL SYSTEM NEED TO KIND OF STAY IN OUR LANE. IF A PARENT HAS THAT MEDICAL, UM IF THEY'RE SEEING A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL THEN UNLESS THE PARENT REACHES OUT FOR US TO INVOLVE THEM WE CAN TO INVOLVE THE SCHOOL. I FEEL LIKE AS LONG AS WE HAVE A NOTE STATING THAT OUR CHILDREN ARE RECEIVING, YOU KNOW, MENTAL HELP THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE SO INVOLVED IN THAT ? YES IF THE NOTE COMES TO THE NURSE AND YOU KNOW, HAVE THE NURSE SEND OUT RESOURCES JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY GET THOSE RESOURCES, BUT I FEEL LIKE UNLESS A PARENT IS ACTIVELY REACHING OUT FOR US TO BE INVOLVED IN SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF A SCHOOL SETTING. I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE THE SCHOOL NEEDS TO GET INVOLVED IN A PERSONAL DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WELL YEAH, I'M GONNA DISAGREE. UM YOU KNOW HEARTILY ON THAT WE HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS HERE IN THIS COUNTRY, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THE I THINK THE STATE HERE IS TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT UM.

THAT THE CHILDREN WHO ARE HAVING MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. HAVE THE RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO THEM SO IT CAN BE IDENTIFIED THIS WHOLE LEVEL. UM I THINK THAT, UM. THIS IN NO WAY IS TRYING TO TAKE OVER ANY PARENTING RESPONSIBILITIES OR YOU, SIR. YOU KNOW, PARENTS RIGHTS. AH, IT'S TO MAKE SURE

[01:10:07]

THAT THE CHILDREN WHO DON'T HAVE A SOLID HOME LIFE. OR. BEING IDENTIFIED AND CORRECTED. IF I'M WRONG, PLEASE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU KNOW THIS BETTER THAN I DO THINK IT'S TWO POINTS. I THINK IT'S TRYING TO REDUCE STIGMA BY SAYING WE'RE GOING TO TREAT MENTAL HEALTH AND PHYSICAL HEALTH THE SAME. SO IF A CHILD COMES IN WITH A NOTE FROM THE DOCTOR, BECAUSE I HAVE A MEDICAL ISSUE WHERE THEY CAME UP WITH A NOTE FROM THEIR THERAPISTS BECAUSE THEY HAD AN APPOINTMENT OR THEY BEING TREATED FOR EXOTIC. WE'RE GOING TO EXCUSE BOTH AS ILLNESS, AND THAT'S WHAT THAT'S LAW SAYS YOU HAVE A CHOICE. THE SECOND PIECE IS THE PAUCITY OF MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES IS LEADING PEOPLE TO NOT KNOWING WHERE TO GET HELP. SO THAT'S WHY I'M THINKING THE STATE STEPPED IN AND SAID OKAY, IF A CHILD BRINGS A NOTE IN SAYING THEY MISSED SCHOOL DUE TO MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE AND AGAIN. THIS IS LEGISLATION. THERE'S NO SUBJECTIVITY HERE. WE HAVE TO SEND HOME RESOURCES. WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. SO THAT'S THAT'S THE STATES BELIEVE MISSION IS AGAIN TO REDUCE THE STIGMA BY SAYING, LET'S TREAT THESE THE SAME AND TWO LET'S GIVE PARENTS THE RESOURCES AND IF THEY CHOOSE TO GO ACCESS RESOURCES GREAT IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO. THAT'S THEIR RIGHT AS WELL. UM SO WAIT. I'D LIKE TO JUST CLARIFY WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. OKAY BECAUSE BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING THAT THERE YOU DON'T HAVE YEAH, YOU YOU DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE AWAY PARENTS' RIGHT RIGHTS OR ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, BUT THE STATES JUST PROVIDING BENEFITS AND RESOURCES FOR YOU KNOW THE MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR SCHOOLS AND IN OUR NATION IN OUR IN OUR COMMUNITIES JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CHILDREN HAVE THE PROPER SUPPORT. THEY NEED TO HAVE GOOD MENTAL HEALTH. CORRECT. RIGHT? OF COURSE NOT SO ADD SOME VER THERE? WHAT WOULD BE THE ISSUE WITH ADDING FOR AND I THINK THAT I'M SORRY. MR AND AGAIN, MR HANNIGAN. I THINK MR HENNIGAN SAID THAT IT WOULD JUST OPEN UP KIND OF A CAN OF WORMS OR LIKE IT WAS THERE IT WOULD BE I DON'T. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE REASON WHY WE WOULDN'T WANT TO ADD BURBAGE IN THERE, SO CAN YOU LIKE, THINK I THINK I'M UNCLEAR ON THE VERBUND. SO IF I COULD, IF I COULD MAYBE MAKE A STATEMENT, MAYBE THAT'LL CLARIFY. I WOULD SAY. IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE CASES, MOST OF THESE CASES THE COUNSELOR. BY LAW WILL SEND HOME RESOURCE TO THE PARENT. THAT'S GOING TO BE THE END OF THE CONVERSATION. THIS SPREADSHEET SO YEAH, IT'S A SPARK SHEET WITH RESOURCES OF WHERE THEY CAN GO IN THE COMMUNITY, AND IT'S GREAT . IT'S A FLYER, RIGHT? BASICALLY UM, THERE'S NO EXPECTATION THAT THE COUNSELORS MEET WITH THE STUDENT. THIS THOSE WOULD JUST BE THE CASES WHERE I KNOW THE STUDENT VERY WELL. NOW I KNOW THERE ARE ABSENT MENTAL HEALTH CONCERNS. THIS IS SOMEONE I MEET WITH REGULARLY. THEN I'M GOING TO MAYBE PULL THEM DOWN, BUT IN THE OTHER CASES, SO THAT'S THE THAT'S THE ISSUE. I HAVE RIGHT THERE. I'M GOING TO MEET WITH THEM. SO FIRST OFF, THEY CAME INTO SCHOOL WITH A DOCTOR'S NOTE FROM A THERAPIST. SO THEY'RE RECEIVING COUNSELING. SO WHY DOES PARENTS NOTE AS WELL? THE PARENT COULD JUST SAY MY CHILD WAS ABSOLUTELY DO DO ANXIETY CONCERNS. RIGHT, SO BUT IF THE PARENT IS ALREADY GIVING THEM. HAS THE RESOURCES IS SENDING THEM TO A DOCTOR IS TAKING THEM TO A DOCTOR IS DOING. THE PARENTAL. GREAT THINGS AND DOESN'T NEED THE EXTRA RESOURCES AND DOESN'T ASK FOR THEM AND DOESN'T WANT THEM. IS THERE A CONCERN? IS THERE A CONCERN? UM WITH REGARDS TO THE SCOPE OF THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THE APPREHENSION IS THAT UH, THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR OR THE CONCEPTION. IS THAT THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR? OVERSTEP.

THAT'S RIGHT STEP IS A GOOD SO MAYBE WE CAN UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT BETTER. WHAT THE SCOPE OF THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR IS BECAUSE UM I AM VERY FOND OF SCHOOL COUNSELORS. QUITE FRANKLY, MY KIDS WHO ARE BOTH YOU KNOW, IN PUBLIC SCHOOL WITH US, UM HAVE GREAT HAVE SAID GREAT THINGS ABOUT THE COUNSELING CURRICULUM , YOU KNOW, TALK ABOUT COPING WITH STRESS. TALK ABOUT NO UNDERSTANDING YOUR EMOTIONS. IT'S LIKE REALLY BASIC THINGS. THAT PARENTS, UM ARE NOT ALWAYS , YOU KNOW, EQUIPPED TO SHARE. I MEAN TO TEACH THEIR KIDS A LOT OF PARENTS OURSELVES ARE COPING, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO COPE OURSELVES, RIGHT. SO CAN YOU SHARE WITH US TO SCOPE? OF THE SCHOOL COUNSELORS BECAUSE WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THERAPISTS LOT OF TIMES. THIS IS JUST A CHECK IN. I'M CHECKING IN ON MY STUDENTS. I'M CHECKING IN ON A PART OF, UM WHY I'M HERE IN THE SCHOOL AS A COUNSELOR, RIGHT? A SCHOOL COMMUNITY DOES THAT CAN YOU SHARE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SCOPE SO THAT WE CAN BE ASSURED THAT THE COUNSELORS THEMSELVES ARE NOT OVERSTEPPING? WHAT A LICENSED THERAPIST THAT A STUDENT MAYBE SEEING, YOU KNOW? CAN I ADD SOMETHING TO BEFORE HE

[01:15:01]

GOES ANSWERS AND ALSO I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE DON'T JUST TREAT THIS AS MENTAL HEALTH ACROSS THE BOARD TO ALL STUDENTS. AS WELL. LIKE. I MEAN, THERE'S MENTAL HEALTH, AND THEN THERE'S MENTAL ILLNESS, YOU KNOW , AND SO WE'RE SEEING SECOND, SIGNALING OUT THAT INDIVIDUALS, STUDENTS UM, BECAUSE WE ALL STRUGGLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH. I MEAN, WE YOU KNOW IF WE'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF OUR MENTAL HEALTH, SOMETHING'S WRONG. YOU KNOW, THEN WE REALLY HAVE PROBLEMS WE NEED. WE ALL NEED MENTAL HELP. SO UM, SO WHEN YOUR HANDS ARE ENJOYS QUESTION, IF YOU COULD ADD THAT INTO YOUR SURE, I THINK I WOULD START WITH THAT TO SAY AGAIN. I THINK IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE CASES THE TEACHER IS GOING TO GET THE NOTE. TELL THE COUNSELOR THE RESOURCES TO GO HOME AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE END OF THE SITUATION. SO I CAN'T SAY THAT IT'S HAPPENING EVERY SITUATION, SO THE VAST MAJORITY OF SITUATIONS THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN SO THERE WON'T BE A CHILD CALLED OUT OF CLASS OR PULLED DOWN. I WOULD SAY THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WHERE THERE'S ALREADY RELATIONSHIP. THEY KNOW THE CHILD NOW THEY'RE SAYING, WOW, IT'S CHILD'S BEEN ABSENT FOR THREE DAYS FOR THIS ISSUE THAT ANOTHER EXPERIENCING LET ME CHECK IN WITH THEM WITH MISSED. DR. HERALDS WORD IS APPROPRIATE THERE. AND I THINK CHECKING IS A GREAT WAY TO SORT OF CHARACTERIZE WHAT THEY DO. SO WHAT OUR SCHOOL COUNSELORS ARE DOING THIS WHAT'S CALLED BRIEF SOLUTION FOCUSED THERAPY, SO IT'S REALLY BRIEF SOLUTION FOCUSED. ERA P, WHICH IS IT'S QUICK. IT'S CHECK INS. I MEAN, OUR OUR COUNSELORS HAVE ANYWHERE FROM 250 TO 450 STUDENTS ON THEIR CASELOAD, SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SPENDING THE TIME THE THERAPIST WOULD A 45 MINUTE THERAPY SESSIONS ON A WEEKLY BASIS, OR BI WEEKLY BASIS WITH THEIR STUDENTS, AND THEY'RE DOING ANYTHING FROM CHECKING IN WITH THEM TO LOOKING AT THEIR GRAVES TO CAREER COUNSELING THERE. ALSO GOING AFTER THE CLASSROOM TO CLASSROOM LESSONS WITH WITH THIS, UM WITH CLASSES ABOUT THE CORE CURRICULUM THAT WE HAVE, SO I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT OUR SCHOOL COUNSELOR SORT OF SEEING THEIR OFFICE AND HAVING THERAPY SESSIONS BECAUSE THAT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT THE CASE. THEY DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO WITH THEIR CASELOADS, SO AS FAR AS THIS POLICY IS CONCERNED FOR TONIGHT, THOUGH, AGAIN, I THINK THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THIS IS TO SAY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET THE NOTE. THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE THE RESOURCES. THAT'S LEGISLATION. WE HAVE NO SAY IN THAT. THE COMMENT NUMBER FOUR IS JUST TO SAY THAT IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED TO SPEAK TO THE CHILD, BECAUSE IN SOME CASES THEY WILL HAVEP WITH THEIR CHILD, AND THAT SHOT ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE CHECKED IN WITH IF THEY'VE MISSED SCHOOL FOR THE CONCERN THAT THEY'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE COUNSELOR FOR IT WITH I WOULD ADD. LASTLY IS THAT THAT BRIEF SOLUTION FOCUSED THERAPY. SOMETIMES ALL OUR STUDENTS NEED AND FOR SOME OF THEM, IT'S ALL THEY'RE GOING TO GET BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF RESOURCES OUTSIDE THE BUILDING, BUT I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY THAT PARENTS SHOULD BE TAKING CONTROL OF THEIR CHILDREN'S MENTAL HEALTH, GETTING THEM THE HELP THEY NEED , WHETHER IT'S THERAPY THERAPY, MEDICATION, PSYCHIATRY, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. IN THE SCHOOL COUNSELORS ROLE IS JUST GOING TO BE AGAIN. I THINK DR HAROLD PUT IT. PUT IT WELL WITH THE CHECK INS, SEE HOW THEY'RE DOING AND MOVE THEM ON BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY DO HAVE EXORBITANT CASELOADS OF STUDENTS THAT THEY'RE WORKING WITH. SO DR PHILLIPS SAYS THE QUESTION COMMENT. YEAH. LET ME GET BACK TO THE DOCUMENT. SO, UM I THINK WITH THE CONCERN IS AND I THINK MAYBE JUST A LITTLE CHANGE IN AND WAS IT BE, UM, DOWN A SECOND HERE? DOWN ON THE PAGE OR GO UP ON THE PAGE, WHERE IT'S TALKING ABOUT STAFF WILL PROVIDE MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES TO STUDENTS UPON THEIR RETURN TO SCHOOL. I THINK IF THAT WERE TO BE CHANGED TO THE STAFF WILL OFFER MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES TO STUDENTS UPON THEIR RETURN TO SCHOOL. AND ADD SOMETHING, YOU KNOW IT'S THE PARENTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE ANY SUCH OFFERINGS FROM THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. UM AND I THINK THAT MIGHT ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN, UH BROUGHT UP IN THE PREVIOUS, UM 15 20 MINUTE DISCUSSION. HOW TO HOW DOES EVERYBODY FEEL ABOUT THAT? I GUESS MY QUESTION IS IT'S THIS LANGUAGE THAT WAS TAKEN FROM THE LAW IS PROVIDE. THE LANGUAGE. THAT'S THERE. IS THAT THE EXPECTED? THAT'S THE STANDARD THAT THE LAW INCLUDED. NOT THAT AGAIN. WE CAN OFFER SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BUT THE LAW STILL APPLIES. SO HAVING A LANGUAGE HERE THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE LAW, I THINK IS UM AGAIN. THERE'S PLACES AS WE HIGHLIGHTED WHERE THE LAW IS VERY CLEAR. THERE'S OTHER PLACES. TO LOOK TO PATRICIA'S QUESTION EARLIER WHERE WE HAVE MORE SORT OF MORE ROOM TO GET DEVIATE FROM THAT, BUT EVERYBODY CAN SEE. IT CAN SAY SOMETHING LIKE, UM I THINK THE CONCERN IS FROM WHAT I'M HEARING FROM MY COLLEAGUES. THAT THE CONCERNS THAT THE, UH THE SCHOOL. UM COUNSELORS AND MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS INVOLVED THROUGH THE SCHOOL. HE'S GOING TO TAKE OVER MANAGEMENT OF THE SPECIFIC SITUATION. AND IF WE JUST SIMPLY SAY THE STAFF WILL PROVIDE MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES. AND WE WILL OFFER. MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES AND PROVIDE IF REQUESTED, MAN. I DON'T I DON'T THINK THAT THE LAW SPECIFICALLY STATE THAT WE HAVE TO, EVEN IF NOT, YOU KNOW WHAT IF A PARENT JUST TURNS IT DOWN? THIS WAY YOUR OFFER IT AND IF THEY SAY YES, THEN HERE, THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE TO YOU

[01:20:05]

SURE, DR PHILLIPS, I APPRECIATE THAT. AND I THINK, UM, THE SECOND SENTENCE AND NUMBER THREE. THAT'S ACTUALLY THE EXACT REASON WHY I PUT THAT IN THERE TO SAY THE DECISION ABOUT THE BEST METHOD OF DELIVERY OF THIS RESOURCES OF THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR. DISCRETION BECAUSE OF ON THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR. I SENT HOME THE RESOURCE, AND THE PARENT SAYS, I DON'T WANT THIS EVER AGAIN. I'M NEVER GONNA SEND IT OVER AGAIN. SO I DON'T WANT. I DON'T WANT OUR COUNSELORS TO FEEL LIKE IF THEY GET 30 NOTES. THEY HAVE TO SEND THIS TO THE STATE PARENT 30 TIMES. WE HAVEN'T LEGAL OBLIGATION TO SEND IT. BUT IF A PARENT COMMUNICATES THAT THEY DON'T WANT IT ANYMORE THAN WE ABSOLUTELY DON'T HAVE TO CONTINUE TO SEND IT. AND I WOULD EVEN SAY TO MS ALVAREZ IS COMMENT IF I KNOW THAT CHILD HAS ALREADY IN THERAPY, I MIGHT NOT SEND IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED IT. THERE ARE ALREADY HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY NEED, SO THEY DON'T HAVE MUCH OF A PROBLEM WITH THREE. IT'S FOR THAT. THAT IS THE MAJOR ISSUE BECAUSE FOUR SAYS THAT THE COUNCILOR SHALL DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO PROVIDE CARE TO THE TO THE STUDENT. AND THERE'S NO UM NO BURBAGE IN THERE, TOO, EVEN INDICATE THAT THE PARENTS GOING TO BE INVOLVED WITH THAT. FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS POLICY. I HONESTLY DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH REMOVING THAT AND I'LL BE VERY HONEST. IT MAY HAPPEN ANYWAY, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE WRITTEN INTO POLICY. MOST OF OUR COUNSELORS.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THAT DECISION ON THEIR OWN. BUT IF WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO PUT IT IN PRINT IN THE POLICY. I HAVE NO ISSUES STRIKING FROM THE POLICY. STRIKE THAT. THAT BE CONSIDERED A SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE. IT WOULD. OKAY SO THAT WOULD THAT WOULD TRIGGER? UM, EVEN THOUGH WORRY SEEMINGLY AND SOME AGREEMENT, MAYBE ON THAT THAT WOULD TRIGGER PUTTING IT BACK OUT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. THERE MIGHT BE A YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT BE COMMENTS AND REASONS THAT SOMEBODY REALLY FEELS THAT NEEDS TO STAY IN. OKAY I JUST I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE CLOSED WITH THAT PORTION OF THE PROCEDURE BECAUSE I HAVE A QUESTION. MISS ALVAREZ, YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU WANT TO CHANGE FOR WHAT WORDING ARE YOU? SUGGESTING TO ADD TO NUMBER FOUR BECAUSE COUNCIL DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT TO MEET WITH THE STUDENT BASED ON PRODUCT PIRI INSIDE WITH THIS STUDENT OR WHETHER OR NOT THEY FEEL IT'S WANTED. I MEAN, WHAT IS A BOURBON NUMBER THREE? SAYS THEY'RE GOING TO SEND THE EMAIL TO THE PARENTS. BUT WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ABOUT FOUR THAT YOU HAVE AN OBJECTION TO THE JUNCTION THAT I HAVE IS THAT THAT THERE WOULD BE DO I DON'T CARE FOR THE CHILD. AND UM , I THINK IT IT WOULD BE MORE CONFUSING FOR THE CHILD THAT AT SCHOOL, THEY WOULD SO AND I THINK WE JUST TALKED ABOUT STRIKING IT COMPLETELY SO THAT THE COUNSELING IS NOT UM, PROVIDED BY THE SCHOOL OTHER THAN ACADEMIC COUNSELING AND AS NEEDED, I DO ACTUALLY, I WOULD ACTUALLY PREFER TO HAVE THAT BECAUSE BECAUSE THEIR THEIR THIRD, UM THERE'S GOING TO BE ISSUES WHERE CHILD MAY HAVE NEED FOR SOME CARE, MENTAL CARE DURING SCHOOL WHO KNOWS SOME ANXIETY OR WHATEVER. BUT MY ISSUE IS THAT THE PARENTS SHOULD BE NOTIFIED, JUST LIKE IF THE CHILD THREW UP AND IT CAME DOWN , YOU KNOW THROUGH THE YOU KNOW, WENT TO THE NURSE. THAT THE PARENT WOULD BE NOTIFIED. SO I THINK THAT THE NOTIFICATION OF THE PARENT IS THE BIG ISSUE THAT I HAVE THAT THE PARENT WOULD NEED TO BE NOTIFIED THAT THE CHILD IS HAVING AN ISSUE IS SUFFERING SOME ANXIETY. YOU KNOW THAT THE AND THEN THE PARENT COULD YOU KNOW, THEN COME IN.

AND LOVE THEIR CHILD LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO LIKE THEY DO YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OUR PARENTS DO , BUT YOU DO REALIZE THIS IS AFTER THE PARENTS SENT A NOTE. PARENT KNOWS THE PARENTS SENT A NOTE. READ THIS AS AN ONGOING SO MAYBE I'M MISREADING THIS. THIS SOUNDS LIKE AN ONGOING MONITORING OF THE CHILD IS NOT AN INCIDENT AND I JUST WANT TO BE VERY TRANSPARENT WITH THE WHOLE BOARD RIGHT NOW. I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH REMOVING THEM BEFORE , BUT I THINK EVERY NUMBER FOUR IS THERE OR NOT THERE. NOTHING'S GOING TO CHANGE WITH WHAT OUR COUNSELORS DO ON A DAILY BASIS.

AND WHAT THEY WOULD DO IN THIS SITUATION. SO IF I TAKE THAT OUT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PULL THE CHILD DOWN. IF I PUT IT IN, DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO. THEY'RE GOING TO DO WHAT THEY DO EVERY DAY. WHETHER IT'S NUMBER FOUR IS IN HERE OR NOT. SO FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS CONVERSATION, THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING NUMBER FOUR WOULD BE FOLLOWING THE NOTE COMING INTO THE SCHOOL CORRECT AND AS A RESULT OF THE SCHOOL BEING NOTIFIED OF THE ABSENCE MENTAL HEALTH RELATED ABSENCE. NUMBER FOUR. WOULD TAKE PLACE. SO IT'S AN INCIDENT BASED, UM, ACTION, NOT AN ONGOING MONITORING OF THE CHILD'S MENTAL HEALTH AND INVOLVEMENT BEYOND THAT NOTE COMING INTO THE SCHOOL. I DON'T. I DON'T THINK IT'S CLEAR IN THE POLICY SO AND I GUESS MY POINT TOO, TO YOUR POINT. DR HAROLD IS WE CAN TAKE NUMBER FOUR OUT, AND THEY MAY STILL MEET WITH THE

[01:25:01]

CHILD, SO THERE'S NO THEY'RE NOT DIRECTED WHAT TO DO BY THIS POLICY. IT'S IMPORTANT. I THINK COUNSELORS PLAY A LARGE ROLE, AND I ACTUALLY I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN BECAUSE IT IS. IT IS NOT BEST PRACTICE FOR, YOU KNOW, UM THE PATIENT TO HAVE TWO OF THE SAME PROVIDERS AT THE SAME TIME.

IT'S NOT AND THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE. UM IT'S AN INCIDENT. SO IF I HAD TO PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS SEEING ME AT THE SAME TIME FOR THE SAME CONDITION, THAT'S NOT BEST PRACTICE. YOU SEE ONE DOCTOR, AND IF YOU WANT TO, YOU KNOW, LEAVE THAT DOCTOR AND GO TO ANOTHER ONE. DO THAT. SO I UNDERSTAND YOUR YOUR YOUR CONCERN. BUT THIS HER CAN. THE CONCERN IS NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING IS A NOTE COMING INTO THE SCHOOL BASED ON A CHILD'S MENTAL HEALTH RELATED ABSENCE. UM RESOURCES GOING OUT TO THE PARENTS? TO BE USED OR NOT USED. UM AND THEN THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR, THEN TAKING ACTION OR NOT BASED ON THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT CHILD NUMBER FOUR, SO IT IS A REACTIONARY ITEM. IT'S NOT THE SCHOOL TRYING TO TAKE THE REINS OF YOUR MENTAL HEALTH CARE OR TREATMENT FOR A STUDENT. SO I'M VERY CLEAR ON WHAT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT'S NOT, AND I THINK THAT WE MISSED THE WORDS BASED ON PRIOR EXPERIENCE. THE COUNSELOR HAS ALREADY BEEN INVOLVED WITH WHATEVER IS GOING ON WITH THE CHILD. SO NOW SHE GOES, AND SHE COMES BACK WITH THE NOTE. IF IT'S A NEW INCIDENT, IT WOULDN'T BE APPLICABLE. BUT THIS IS BASED ON THEM HER KNOWING THE STUDENT HIM OR KNOWING THIS DEEP. THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY IT IMPLIED TO ME THAT THIS WAS AN ONGOING MONITORING OF THE CHILD. NOT MONITORING SUCH YOU KNOW IF I'M WEARING A PARENT HAT FOR A MINUTE AND NOT, BUT JUST THE LAWYER HAT IF THE IF THE STUDENT HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN THE SITUATION WITH OTHER STUDENTS MAY BE IN THE CLASSROOM OR SOMETHING THAT'S GOING ON IN SCHOOL AND HAD SPOKEN TO THE COUNSELOR NOW THEY MISSED UP SOME DAYS FOR ANXIETY. THE DOCTOR'S NOTE ISN'T GOING TO GO INTO ALL THE DETAIL OF WHAT WAS BEHIND THE ANXIETY, PERHAPS SO MAYBE THE COUNSELOR BECAUSE THEY KNOW OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN HAPPENING, UM, WOULD HAVE A TOUCH BASE THE CHECKPOINT TYPE OF THINGS. I DON'T KNOW IF I'M ALLOWED TO GET PERSONAL HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, I HAVE, UM, I GUESS A RELATIVE THAT IS HAVING SOME ISSUES IN SCHOOL, AND THEY HAVE ONGOING UM, AND THE ISSUES ARE HAPPENED AT THE SCHOOL. ANDE COUNSELOR. LIKE THE PARENTS COME IN. SO THERE'S A YOU KNOW, THE PARENTS ARE COMPLETELY ENGAGED.

IT'S NOT IN MARYLAND, BUT THE PARENTS ARE COMPLETELY ENGAGED AND EVERYTHING AND WHEN SHE MEETS WITH THE COUNSELOR, THEY'RE NOTIFIED AND GIVEN THE OPTION TO BE THERE. SO THAT'S YOU KNOW, JUST ONE. I THINK WHAT THE ISSUE IS, IS THAT IF A STUDENT COMES IN WITH A NOTE, SAYING THAT THEY'RE HAVING A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE IF THE PARENT IS THEN REQUESTING THAT THE SCHOOL INTERVENE AND PROVIDE ADDITIONAL ASSISTANCE. THAT'S ONE THING. BUT IF THE CHILD IS ALREADY SEEING SOMEBODY OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL, I FEEL THAT THAT WE SHOULD LEAVE IT AT THAT. IF WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THIS PERSON IS ALREADY SEEING AND BEING YOU KNOW, PROVIDED CARE FOR I DON'T FEEL LIKE THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR NEEDS TO THEN GET EVEN MORE SO INVOLVED IN IT BECAUSE MAYBE THE CHILD DOESN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE DISCUSSING THOSE ISSUES WITH THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR AT THAT POINT.

SO IN TERMS OF THIS POLICY AGAIN, I DON'T MIND REMOVING THEM BEFORE BECAUSE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHETHER PARENTS SHOULD BE CONTACTED FOR A COUNCIL MEETING WITH THE STUDENTS, A MUCH BIGGER CONVERSATION AND AGAIN. WHETHER FOR IS THEY'RE NOT AS SORT OF A MOOT POINT. THE COUNCIL IS GOING TO DO IT. THEY'RE GOING TO DO WHETHER FOREST PRESIDENT OR NOT, SO I THINK FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS DISCUSSION, I DON'T HAVE A PERSONAL PASSIONS. WHETHER FOUR STAYS OR GOES BECAUSE IT HONESTLY IS NOT GOING TO IMPACT THE DAILY OPERATIONS OF OUR SCHOOL COUNSELOR. SOME WILL GET THE NOTE AND PULL THE CHILD DOWN SOMEONE AT THE NOTE AND WON'T AND I'M GOING TO TRUST THAT TO THEIR JUDGMENT. COULD I ASK A QUESTION THEN THEY'RE GOING TO DO WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO. SO DO THEY DO THEY DO THEY CONTACT THE PARENT NOW? I MEAN, IS THAT IS THAT WHAT IS? WHAT IS THE POLICY ON THAT THERE IS NO POLICY. IN SOME CASES, PARENTS ARE NOTIFIED . SOME CASE THEY'RE NOT AGAIN. SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS ARE TWO MINUTES LONG, SOMETIMES THEIR COLLEGE PLANNING CONVERSATION THAT TURNS INTO A DIVULGING OF SOME PERSONAL INFORMATION. IT'S A FLUID CONVERSATIONS ARE COUNSELORS HAVE WITH STUDENTS, SO IT HAD.

THAT'S NOT A PREDICTABLE SITUATION AND AGAIN IF WE SAID THAT ALL COUNSELORS NEED APPROVAL FROM A PARENT TO MEET WITH THE CHILD. THAT WOULD PUT UP ENORMOUS BARRIERS FOR THE WORK THAT WE DO AND AGAIN THE WORK THAT WE DO IN SCHOOL COUNSELING OFFICES, ALL TIED BACK TO ACADEMICS. OUR JOB IS TO TAKE CARE OF THE WHOLE CHILD SO THEY CAN PERFORM ACADEMICALLY.

IN ADDITION TO PREPPING THEM FOR THEIR FUTURE AND A COUNCIL AND COLLEGE COUNSELING AND THINGS OF

[01:30:02]

THAT NATURE. DISCRETION THAT PERSON. INFORMATION WENT HOME. THE KIDS. I GUESS I'M ADDITIONALLY CHECK THIS. LIKE THEY MAY SAY SOMETHING. THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE SAID IT APPARENT WHITENESS AND OF THE COUNCIL THAT MIGHT HELP THE COUNCIL FURTHER. UNAWARE OF IT. THERAPY.

WORLD CHAMPION. EXACTLY CORRECT. I MEAN, EVERY CASE IS SO UNIQUE . IT'S HARD TO SAY, UM AGAIN.

THEIR GOAL IS TO HELP THE CHILD BE MENTALLY WELL TO BE ACADEMICALLY SOUND. THAT'S THE GOAL OF OUR SCHOOL COUNSELORS. CONCERN CONCERN. THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. I KEEP SHUTTING THIS MY MIC OFF BECAUSE I'M COUGHING UP HERE AND I DIDN'T WANT IT. CERTAIN PERCOLATED AND JOSH JUST KEEPING ME ON TASK BECAUSE HE STARTED IT BACK ON AGAINST MY APOLOGISTS. BUT, UM ANYTHING.

IT'S KIND OF CAUGHT BETWEEN. PLACES BECAUSE IF WE ASK TOO MANY QUESTIONS OR STEPPING ON PARENTS TOES BUT IF WE IGNORE THE SITUATION, THEN THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO APPROACH TO PROMOTE A CHILD'S MENTAL HEALTH. SO. I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH IT AS A CHECK IN AND IT'S A SCHOOL COUNSELOR, SO IT'S NOT MENTAL HEALTH THERAPY PER SE. IT'S JUST A CHECK IN AND I THINK THAT MRS ALVAREZ. IT'S NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY TIME A CHANCE COUNSELOR POSE A STUDENT IN IT'S JUST RELATED TO THIS CHECKPOINT. AND WHAT WE'RE SAYING SINCE IT'S JUST A CHECKPOINT. IT'S LIKE ANY OTHER TIME WHERE WE MAY OR MAY NOT GET A PARENT INVOLVED AND YOU'VE BEEN CLEAR YOU DON'T MIND TAKING IT OUT. THERE'S SOME BOARD MEMBERS UP HERE. I THINK THAT THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT IT'S ANOTHER CHECKPOINT TO PRESERVE A CHILD'S MENTAL HEALTH. SO, UM. OKAY I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THEY'RE NOT PROVIDING MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES THE WAY AN EXTERNAL COUNSEL WOULD. I WOULD SAY TO THE EXTENT TO THE EXTENT BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT TO MINIMIZE THE WORK OF OUR SCHOOL COUNSELORS. THE WORD CHECK IN EVEN THOUGH I USED IT MYSELF. THESE ARE VERY WELL TRAINED, SKILLED. FOLKS WHO CAN IDENTIFY THE THERAPEUTIC NEEDS OF OUR STUDENTS. IT'S JUST NOT TO THE INTENSIVE NEED. SOME OF OUR SCHOOL COUNSELORS ARE TRAINED THERAPISTS WHO HAVE THEIR OWN THERAPY PRACTICES SO BUT AGAIN, THE PURPOSE OF THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR IS NOT TO SERVE AS THE THERAPIST IS THE SERVICE THE PERSON TO HELP KEEP THE CHILD MENTALLY WELL SO THAT THEY CAN BE ACADEMICALLY SOUND. CAN I SAY, I THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE THAT MS ALVAREZ IS HAVING IS THAT IF THERE'S AN ISSUE AT SCHOOL AND APPARENTLY NOT AWARE OF A SITUATION THAT IS HAPPENING AT SCHOOL. I THINK SHE'S SAYING THAT. A PARENT SHOULD BE MADE AWARE OF A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE THAT'S HAPPENING AT SCHOOL SO THE PARENT CAN STEP IN AT THAT POINT AND ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS. AND OFTEN TIMES THEY ARE OFTENTIMES THEY ARE SO I MEAN, OUR OUR JOB IS TO LINK UP PARENTS. THAT'S SORT OF THE PURPOSE OF THIS LAW. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE LINK UP PARENTS WITH THE RESOURCES BECAUSE WE KNOW WE CAN'T PROVIDE THE LEVEL OF THERAPEUTIC NEED FOR MANY OF OUR STUDENTS, AND WE HAVE ALL OF OUR SCHOOLS HAVE SCHOOL. THEY SPENT ALL THERAPISTS WHO COME INTO OUR BUILDING TO SERVICE THE THERAPIST DURING THE SCHOOL DAY. SO A LOT OF THAT, UM LIAISON WORK HAPPENS WITH THE THERAPIST IS COMING IN WHO TAKES THE TAKES THE ROLL OFF FROM THE COUNCIL AND SERVES AS THE CHILD THERAPIST. AND THAT'S ONLY EVER DONE. WHEN PARENTS ARE INVOLVED IN MAKING THAT HAPPEN. THAT NEVER HAPPENS WITHOUT PARENTS. PARENTS HAVE TO COME TO THE INTAKE MEETING AND SIGN ALL THE PAPERS THE SAME AS THE THERAPY APPOINTMENT. THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN AN OFFICE. IT JUST HAPPENS IN OUR SCHOOL BUILDINGS. SO THE PARENTS, I MEAN, THAT'S JUST IT JUST CONFUSES ME. WHY WE CAN'T PUT SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT SAYS A PARENT CONTACT THE PARENTS. YOU KNOW I DON'T YOU KNOW AGAIN, I THINK FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS POLICY THAT'S A MUCH BIGGER DISCUSSION BECAUSE I THINK WHAT'S BEING ASKED IS CAN COUNSELORS MAKE SURE THEY'VE CONTACTED A PARENT BEFORE THEY MEET OR AFTER ANY TIME THEY'VE MET WITH THE STUDENT THAT IS A MUCH BIGGER CONVERSATION IN HOW DO WE TAKE? AT WHAT POINT DO WE TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE POLICY BECAUSE IT DOES SOUND LIKE THERE IS THERE IS NOT A STANDARD ACROSS THE BOARD, RIGHT? UM SO SOME SOME SCHOOLS MAKE CONTACT PARENTS, UM WE MAY SPEAK TO A STUDENT OR NOT. UM. HOW CAN WE JUST. SET SOME TIME ASIDE TO, LIKE INVESTIGATE THE POLICY AND JUST SEE IF THERE ARE SOME

[01:35:03]

REASONABLE THINGS THAT WE COULD DO. UM. TO SATISFY THE PUBLIC INTEREST. UM. WHILE STILL MAKING IT DOABLE, AND WE STILL AS A SCHOOL SYSTEM HAS TO BE ABLE TO EXECUTE RIGHT WITH THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE. SO, UM I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW. IF YOU YOU ALL WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT, UM, AS LONG AS WE KNOW WHERE WE COULD YOU KNOW, HAVE A LARGER DISCUSSION ABOUT BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT SENSE WOULD IT MAKE IF WE TAKE IT OUT OF THE POLICY, AND IT'S STILL GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY? RIGHT I CONCUR WITH THESE CHOICES. 100% I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE THAT LARGE, LARGER DISCUSSION. OKAY SO I GUESS SO. I WOULD JUST SUGGEST ONE THING. THIS IS WHERE WE GOT TO GET SPECIFIC ABOUT THE LANGUAGE. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A BOARD POLICY? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT PROCEDURE OR PRACTICE, WHICH ARE VERY DIFFERENT THINGS, RIGHT? POLICIES TEND TO BE TRIMMER.

THEY DON'T HAVE AS MUCH SPECIFICITY. THEY DON'T UM YOU KNOW, AND WHEN YOU TRIED TO THERE'S A REALLY DEEP RABBIT HOLE YOU KNOW INTO WHEN YOU TRY TO DICTATE SPECIFIC. IT'S VERY SPECIFIC ACTION. AND TOO BROAD A RANGE OF POSSIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES BECAUSE BOOK INDICATED MEETINGS WITH. COUNSELORS HAPPENED FOR 1000 DIFFERENT REASONS. AND YOU CAN LOOSELY SORT THEM INTO THIS TYPE OF MEETING VERSUS THAT TYPE OF MEETING. BUT WHENEVER WE TRY TO DO THIS, LIKE TO TRY TO MAKE OUR POLICIES THAT SPECIFIC WE ALWAYS RUN INTO GRAY AREAS, WHICH ARE PRETTY INDEFINABLE. SO UM IF THE CONVERSATION IS ABOUT COMMUNICATION AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, WHICH IS SORT OF WHAT I THINK YOU'RE ACCUSING ME WITH THE FEELING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A CERTAIN STANDARD. WE'VE WORKED TOO. AN EXPECTATION OF A STANDARD, I THINK YOU KNOW, THAT'S MORE. TALKING ABOUT PRACTICE OR PROCEDURE, WHICH ISN'T IT'S OKAY TO ENGAGE THE BOARD. FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF.

THEY REPRESENT THE COMMUNITY. BUT IN TERMS OF PUTTING CERTAIN VERY SPECIFIC THINGS LIKE THAT, AND POLICY UM I WOULDN'T. SUGGEST PROCEEDING WITH EXTREME CAUTION BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DAY TO DAY INTERACTIONS. AND, UM AS ENTICING AS IT IS TO SAY THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN EVERY TIME THERE'S 1000 REASONS THAT GOES WRONG. UM AND SO THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH A BIGGER CONVERSATION ABOUT IT. BUT LET'S BE CLEAR WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WITH. THAT IS WHAT I WOULD SAY. PERHAPS IT COULD BE SOMETHING IN ADDITION TO MAKE SOME ADDITIONAL COMMENTS. SURE. UM YOU KNOW, MENTAL HEALTH IS SO MUCH HARDER. TO DEFINE THEN PHYSICAL HEALTH.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, FOR MY SPECIALTY DIABETES, FOR EXAMPLE , YOU KNOW SOMEONE'S GOT A BLOOD SUGAR OF 100. THEY GOT A BLOOD SUGAR 300. AND YOU CAN YOU CAN DEFINE, UM SERIOUS ILLNESS OR ISSUES THERE, WHEREAS MENTAL HEALTH IS SO MUCH HARDER TO DEFINE. I THINK THE BIGGEST PROBLEM HERE AND THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. BUCK AS FAR AS NOTIFYING EVERY EVERY PARENT ABOUT EVERY INTERACTION BECAUSE YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOMETHING MORE THAN KID GETS A, YOU KNOW, 89 A TEST. THEY NEEDED A 90 TO GET AN A FOR THE QUARTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND HE'S ALL STRESSED OUT OVER THAT, AND IT'S MORE OF A PAT ON THE BACK. SAY, HEY, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT JUST DO BETTER NEXT TIME AND HE DOES BETTER NEXT TIME HE GETS HIS A AND THAT OBVIOUSLY DOES NOT NEED COMMUNICATION WITH A PARENT. IS THERE SOME TYPE OF AND I'M I'M ASKING THIS QUESTION BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. UM IS THERE SOME TYPE OF THRESHOLD THAT WE CAN DEFINE? THAT WOULD REQUIRE OR WOULD SUGGEST THE NEED TO CONTACT APPARENT UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. UM YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST A BAD DAY AT THE OFFICE PROBABLY DOES NOT REALLY REQUIRE ANY TYPE OF INTERACTION , WHEREAS SOMETHING WHERE YOU KNOW, STUDENT IS OBVIOUSLY SUFFERING. UM. IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM THOSE VERY IDENTIFIABLE, UM, TO HIS PEERS TO HIS TEACHERS, THE COUNSELORS THAT SHOULD CERTAINLY REQUIRES SOME TYPE OF COMMUNICATION WITH THE PARENTS. SO YOU KNOW? IS IT WORTH GETTING OUR MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS? UM. TO THE TABLE WITH US TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME TYPE OF LANGUAGE. AND SOME TYPE OF IDENTIFYING WELL IDENTIFIABLE CRITERIA. THAT WOULD TRIGGER THAT CONTACT WITH THE PARENTS. SO UM, THE COUNCILS ARE NOT PRETTY MUCH ON THE PHONE. ALL DAY LONG NOTIFYING THE PARENTS THAT THEY HAD A FIVE MINUTE DISCUSSION. UM, ABOUT A ABOUT A TEST OR SOMETHING. SO I WOULD AGREE. I'M OPEN TO HAVING THE DISCUSSION ABOUT ANY SORT OF THRESHOLDS. THERE IS NO POLICY OR PROCEDURE IS STRICTLY A PRACTICE THAT NATIONWIDE OR

[01:40:01]

SCHOOL COUNSELORS ARE OPERATING UNDER THE AMERICAN SCHOOL COUNSELING ASSOCIATION'S GUIDANCE, JUST LIKE OUR SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGISTS OPERATE UNDER THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGISTS, SO WE DON'T HAVE A POLICY OR PROCEDURE THAT WOULD DICTATE. HOW THESE OUTBREAK BECAUSE WE'RE DEALING WITH HUMANS, AND WE'RE DEALING WITH NUANCED SITUATIONS AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO BUT I WOULD SAY I'M OPEN TO THE HAVING THAT DISCUSSION BUT TO COME BACK TO THIS POLICY SO THAT WE CAN BECOME COMPLIANT WITH THE LAW. UM I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO EITHER . REMOVE NUMBER FOUR OR GET AGREEMENT ON NUMBER FOUR SO THAT THE PIECE WHERE WE HAVE TO NOTIFY PARENTS THAT WE GOT A NOTE AND HERE'S RESOURCES THAT WE CAN BECOME COMPLIANT WITH STATE LAW AND GET OUR SCHOOLS. MOVING BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT'S OPERATIONALIZED, IT'S NOT POLICY YET, AND THAT'S MY CONCERN. SO UM, AGAIN NUMBER FOUR WHETHER IT STAYS OR GOES, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE THAT CONVERSATION THAT YOU ALL ARE ALLUDING TO, BUT IF WE COULD COME TO SOME CONSENSUS ON THIS POLICY, THEN THAT COULD HELP US AGAIN BECOME COMPLIANT WITH AT LEAST THAT PIECE OF THE LAW. THANK YOU SO RIGHT NOW. MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE TWO TABLE. THIS POLICY IS THAT CORRECT? SECONDLY, THERE WAS NO SECOND SOMEBODY I DON'T THINK IT WAS EMOTION, EMOTION, BUT I THINK THAT WE STARTED INTO THE DISTANT WE SAID LET'S HAVE THE DISCUSSION. AND SO THEN WE STARTED INTO THE DISCUSSION. SO WE HAVE NOT. THAT WAS NOT SECONDED, BUT IT'S JUST LIKE A MOTION HANGING OUT THERE SOMEWHERE. AND I STILL HAVE THE MOTION OPEN THAT WE COULD TABLE THIS AND HAVE A LARGER DISCUSSION. WE JUST HAD A REALLY ROBUST DISCUSSION BEFORE WE DO THAT PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT. BEFORE WE DO THAT. ARE WE UNDER SOME TYPE OF TIME FRAME THAT WE NEED TO PASS THIS BY IN ORDER TO BE COMPLIANT WITH THE LAW. IT'S YEAH. WE DON'T HAVE A TIME FRAME TO WHICH WE NEED TO BECOME COMPLIANT. I GUESS I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THIS IS HAPPENING ACROSS ALL OF OUR SCHOOLS AND TO HAVE IT IN POLICY. WHICH IS WHY I THINK AT THIS POINT PERSONALLY, I WOULD SAY, LET'S REMOVE NUMBER FOUR BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THE CONVERSATION ABOUT OPERATIONALIZE IN OUR SCHOOL COUNSELORS IS GOING TO BE A SHORT ONE. AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO HAVE THIS POLICY STILL HANGING OUT HERE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW. AGAIN REMOVING NUMBER FOUR. KEEPING NUMBER FOUR IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN NOW AND THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE SCHOOL COUNCILS. WE STILL WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PASS THIS POLICY NOW BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE, AND IT WOULD GO BACK FOR ANOTHER 30 DAYS OF PUBLIC COMMENT. CORRECT SO THE OPTIONS THAT THE BOARD HAS SOMEONE COULD MOVE TO ACCEPT THE POLICY AS IS AND AGAIN REMEMBER , THERE WAS THE THREE WORDS THAT WERE ADDED, WHICH WERE EXPLAINED EARLIER THIS OR OR UNLAWFULLY ABSENT AND G ONE. ABOUT THE MAKEUP WORK, SO IT COULD BE ACCEPTED THAT WAY. AND IF THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD VOTED ON, IT WOULD BE THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD BE OR IF THERE'S A MOTION TO REMOVE. PARAGRAPHS. D TO BE FOUR. UM THEN IT WOULD GO OUT BACK OUT. THAT IS A SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE. SO THAT WOULD GO BACK OUT FOR 30 DAYS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. I THINK WHAT MR HANNIGAN IS SAYING, AND I CONCUR. AND IN TERMS OF THE LAW THAT WOULDN'T BE A HUGE OF A THING, 30 DAYS KNOWING THAT WE COULD THEN COME BACK WITH A DECISION. UM AS OPPOSED TO IF WE NEEDED TO HAVE AN EVEN BROADER CONVERSATION WITH OTHER STAKEHOLDERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT. TO NOT BE HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, OR TO NOT HAVE A POLICY ON THAT BECAUSE WE WOULD BE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NO HARD AND FAST DEADLINE. ACTUALLY AT THIS POINT, I WE WERE JUST IN LIKE THE QUESTIONING PHASE, SO I THINK THAT EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THEIR QUESTIONS BEFORE WE EVEN MAKE ANY EMOTIONS REALLY MOTION.

UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE TO WORK A SECOND. THAT MOTION THERE WAS NO SECOND WILL ACTUALLY LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE POLICY, AS IS SECOND TO FINISH THIS ONE FIRST WASN'T SECONDED DIDN'T GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEBODY THE SECOND OKAY. THE STATION MORE PEOPLE WHO HAD DISCUSSION ON THIS. I HAD A QUESTION AND DISCUSSION. HERE TO ASK IT, THEN? YES. WHERE YOU HAVE, UM IMMEDIATE FAMILY. THEY'RE IN THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY. WHAT IS IT? HOW DO YOU DEFINE IMMEDIATE FAMILY? IRONIC YOU BRING THAT UP? BECAUSE I JUST HAD THAT CONVERSATION TODAY WITH A SCHOOL SO AND WHEN I LOOKED AT THE MARYLAND STATE RECORDS MANUAL ACTUALLY SAYS THAT THE LOCAL JURISDICTION CAN DEFINE WHAT DEATH AND IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEANS. UM SO AT THIS POINT, IT'S UP TO THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU'RE YOU ONE UNDER LAWFUL ABSENCES. 13 EXPECTING NUMBER ONE DEFINITELY IMMEDIATE FAMILY. SORRY THANK YOU. MY REASON IS THAT IMMEDIATE FAMILY IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT FOR EVERYBODY. EVERYBODY YOU KNOW? AS AN ONLY CHILD HAVING SISTERS AND BROTHERS, SIBLINGS, BUT LEGAL SYSTEMS. I HAVE HALF BUT THEN I'VE GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF COUSINS AND WHATEVER SO IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEANS SOMETHING TO EVERYBODY. SO THAT'S WHY AND I AGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY, WHICH IS WHY I THINK IT'S GOOD NOT TO DEFINE THAT AND LEAVE

[01:45:06]

THAT UP TO THE COMMON SENSE DISCRETION OF THE PRINCIPAL DECISION. THAT'S BECAUSE IF WE START DEFINING IT WILL LEAVE 10 PEOPLE OUT. OKAY THE OTHER QUESTION THAT I HAD DEALT WITH.

13 ON PAGE. NINE WHERE IT SAYS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A REQUEST OR A TRIP FOR 10 DAYS AND MORE FOR RESULTS AND REFERRAL TO PUPIL PERSONNEL. UM WORKER FOR WITHDRAWAL. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MARYLAND STATE RECOMMEND. OKAY MARIE IGNORANCE THIS STUDENT WILL NEED TO BE RE ENROLLED UPON THEIR RETURN. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE PROCESS OF HOW THIS RE ENROLLMENT WORKS FOR ME ? THERE'S A STORY BEHIND THAT. SO A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN THE STATE DEPARTMENT CAME OUT, AND THEY DECIDED TO SAY THAT ANY STUDENT WHO IS CHRONICALLY ABSENT MISS 10% AND MORE OF THE SCHOOL YEAR EXCUSE OR AN EXCUSE PRIOR TO THAT IT WAS MORE ABOUT IF YOU'RE EXCUSED. THEY WEREN'T REALLY HOLDING US ACCOUNTABLE. NOW IT WAS EXCUSED OR EXCUSE. AND WE WERE ALLOWING FOR VACATIONS. SO THAT'S ONE PIECE OF THE OTHER SIDE OF HIS. MR E SAYS THAT ANY CHILD WHO IS ABSENT FOR 10 CONSECUTIVE DAYS IN A ROW SHOULD BE WITHDRAWN ON THE 11TH DAY. NOW WE DON'T DO THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS BECAUSE WE WOULD BE WITHDRAWING, WITHDRAWING AND RE ENROLLING CHILDREN ALL DAY EVERY DAY. SO IN THESE CASES WHERE CHILDREN ARE GOING ON A TRIP, AND WE HAVE SOME CHILDREN THAT MIGHT LEAVE THE COUNTRY FOR 25 DAYS TO GO BACK TO THEIR HOME COUNTRY FOR THEIR HOLIDAY OR A LOSS THAT MAY HAVE OCCURRED IN THEIR RELIGION OR IN THEIR CULTURE. THAT'S THE AMOUNT OF TIME THEY NEED TO SPEND. SO IN THOSE CASES, WE WITHDRAW THE CHILD SO WE CAN BACKDATE THE ATTENDANCE OF BASICALLY THE SCHOOL DOESN'T TAKE THAT 25 DAYS OF ABSENCES AGAINST THEM BECAUSE THEY MUST E. UM LOOKS AT THAT AND JUDGES THEM BASED ON THAT. AND THEN WHEN THEY COME BACK, THEY JUST NEED TO RE ENROLL THE SCHOOL. WE DON'T MAKE THEM PROVE RESIDENCY ALL OVER AGAIN. WE JUST MAKE THEM BASICALLY GETTING RE ENROLLED, WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH THIS PARENT COMING IN AND STARTING THE PROCESS OVER AGAIN RAILROAD BUT WE DO NOT MAKE THEM GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF BRINGING ALL THE DOCUMENTS IN THE WAY THEY WOULD THE FIRST TIME THAT EMAIL. HOW WOULD THE RE ENROLLMENT IMPACT THEIR STATUS? SO THE REASON MAKE UP HOMEWORK OR WHAT THEY BE. THEY LOSE WHAT? I WOULD THAT FOR THE TIME THAT THEY'RE WITHDRAWN.

THEY'RE NOT A STUDENT, SO THERE'S NO MAKEUP WORK. THERE'S NO MISSED WORK. IT'S AS IF WE HAVE SOME STUDENTS THAT MIGHT COME TO US. 25TH DAY OF THE SCHOOL YEAR FROM ANOTHER SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND WE HAVE TO GET THEM ENROLLED IN SORT OF LET THEM PICK UP WHERE THEY LEFT OFF. SO FOR THESE STUDENTS, IT'S NOT EXCUSED ABSENCES OF WORK. THEY HAVE TO MAKE UP. MOST OF THEM WILL TAKE WORK WITH THEM TO STAY CURRENT. UM BUT DURING THE TIME THAT THEY'RE WITHDRAWN, ITS NOT A. THERE'S NO MAKEUP WORK PER SE , BECAUSE IT'S NOT. IT'S NOT AN ABSENCE THAT THERE ARE NO LONGER A STUDENT FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME. THANK YOU. RIGHT DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANTED TO ADD? NO, NOT WITH THAT. DR HAROLD NO. MR PERRY. DR PHILLIPS. UH, NO, I'M GOOD.

RICCARDI. SO IT'S BEEN A LITTLE WHILE SINCE WE STARTED THE CONVERSATION, BUT I WANTED TO GO BACK TO HOW I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO THE PUBLIC SPEAKERS. AND ADDRESSING THEIR CONCERNS. I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AND THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT ON THE FLY. BUT THAT'S THAT'S MY ONLY COMMENT. I HAVE NO ADDITIONAL COMMENTS. SO WE HAD A MOTION THAT WASN'T SECONDED SO HELP ME. IT'S DEAD ON THE FLOOR. IT'S DEAD. OKAY SO NOW I, UM I'M GOING TO ASK IF THERE IS ANOTHER MOTION. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO REMOVE D TWO BEFORE AND REEVALUATE BASED ON THE DISCUSSION THAT WE JUST HAD I SECOND IT. OKAY, THEN HE DISCUSSION ON THAT. MR HOLLYWOOD. YOU DO REAL CALL VOTE, PLEASE. SALVATORE'S. NO. MISS BRUCE. YOUR MOTION, RIGHT? I MEAN, ON THE MOTIVE? YES YES, YES. I SUPPORT THE MOTION. SORRY ABOUT THAT. I'M CONFUSED. I THOUGHT I WAS I WAS VOTING ON ACCEPTING THE POLICY ON THE MOTION ON THE MOTION. GOT IT? YES. I'LL RESTART SOVEREIGN. YES. MISS BRUCE. MISS HAN? YES. DR HAROLD NO. MISS PERRY. NO. DR PHILLIPS. YES. MR RICCARDI? YES. VICE PRESIDENT SEWELL NO. PRESIDENT MILLER. THIS SPECIAL

[01:50:10]

FAILS. DO I HAVE A MOTION? UM NOW TO ACCEPT THE POLICY WILL MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE POLICY, AS IS SECONDED CAROL BRUCE. THANK YOU. MR ALAN I KNOW YOU LIKE CALLING NAMES. MISS ALVAREZ. NO. BRUCE? YES. MISS HAN. DR HAROLD YES. PERRY? YES. DR PHILLIPS. YES. MR RICCARDI? NO. VICE PRESIDENT SEOL YES. PRESIDENT MUELLER. YES. THIS MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU.

APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, MR HENNIGAN FACES. THANK YOU. ITEM E PRESENTATION OF THE

[E. Presentation of the Superintendent's Proposed FY2024 Budget, Dr. Sean Bulson, Superintendent of Schools, Ms. Deborah Judd, Assistant Superintendent for Business Services, and Mr. Eric Clark, Director of Budget]

SUPERINTENDENT'S WHAT. OKAY OKAY . PROPOSED FISCAL YEAR 2024 BUDGET, SO I NEED, UM DR BOLSON.

MRS JUDD DEREK CLARK. AND MR EVANS. SORRY THEY BROUGHT MARY EDWARDS. OH, SORRY. SORRY, NOT MY SCRIPT. I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO MISS JUDGE. VICE PRESIDENT SOUL BOARD MEMBERS AFTER BOLSON. WE ARE HERE BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING FOR OUR FIRST VISIT REGARDING THE SUPERINTENDENT'S PROPOSED BUDGET FOR FY 24. THIS IS NOT FOR DECISION THIS EVENING. IT'S JUST A PRESENTATION AND TURNING THE BUDGET OVER TO YOU FOR CONSIDERATION WOULD BE. WE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE BUDGET AND THEN FOR A VOTE, THE FIRST MEETING IN FEBRUARY. WITH ME THIS EVENING. I HAVE ERIC CLARK, OUR DIRECTOR OF BUDGET AND MARY EDMONDS, OUR BUDGET ANALYSTS, SO THEY'VE WORKED ON THIS AS WELL AND I WILL WALK THROUGH THE DETAILS OF THE BUDGET IT IS ONLINE AVAILABLE FOR YOU AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC TO REVIEW BUT WE WILL GO THROUGH THE DETAILS OF THIS. THIS EVENING, SO SORRY. SO A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WE REVIEW REALLY EACH TIME WE DO A BUDGET, UM THE BULK OF OUR BUDGET IS SALARIES AND THEN IT BENEFITS 84% OF OUR BUDGET. IS SALARY AND BENEFITS. LOOKING AT IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY. 79% OF THE BUDGET IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO INSTRUCTION AND INSTRUCTIONAL SUPPORT. RESTRICTED BUDGET INCLUDES FEDERAL AND STATE FUNDS. AND THOSE ARE FOR VERY SPECIFIC PURPOSES AND CERTAIN DATES, SO THE FUNDS EXPIRE AT A CERTAIN TIME, AND WE HAVE TO SPEND THE FUNDS ACCORDING TO VERY SPECIFIC ITEMS ARE FOOD NUTRITION BUDGET FOR THE SECOND TIME IN TWO YEARS FOR FY 24 WILL BE PREPARED UNDER THE NATIONAL SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAM MODEL. THERE WILL BE NO CHANGES TO THE CURRENT BUDGET THIS YEAR, SO IT'S TOO EARLY YET IN THE YEAR SO WE'LL COME BEFORE YOU AND JUNE AND UPDATE THE FOOD NUTRITION BUDGET AT THAT TIME FOR MORE REALISTIC NUMBERS, IF CHANGES ARE NEEDED. AND THEN AS THE FINAL REMINDER OUR BUDGET IS DUE TO HARFORD COUNTY. UM, BY MARCH, 1ST. SO WHEN I TALKED ABOUT THE 80% 84% OF THE BUDGET FOR SALARY AND BENEFITS ON THE LEFT, UM, PICTURE HERE THAT WOULD BE THE RED SECTION AND THEN THE GREEN SECTION SO AGAIN THAT JUST SHOWS SUCH A LARGE PORTION OF OUR BUDGET DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTABLE TO SALARIES AND BENEFITS AND THEN ON THE RIGHT SIDE. THE RED PORTION IS THE PORTION OF THE BUDGET.